What is 'Bad Manners' at an Old Time Session?

[Ptarmigan]

So, what is considered 'Bad Manners' at an Old Time Session?

Here is a Topic I posted today on an Irish Music forum, which might be of interest to some folks here :?

So, is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’?
Well, to help you decide, here's a tale which 'should' make you curl your toes with embarrassment!

Two passing through musicians, one from North Carolina & ‘tother from Lancashire arrived early at our session, in the heart of rural Ulster, but when these generous musical spirits arrived, instead of the local musicians giving these visitors the ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’ treatment, they instead, decided to give them a wide berth & started another session in another part of the pub.

Now, I can hear you all shake your heads in disgust, but to qualify the story a little, I have to admit that the two strangers were playing Hammered Dulcimers, [ I know - not ‘the’ most popular of instruments in Ireland it has to be said ] but I like to think that, were I faced with the same scene on arrival, I would have been a big enough person to have treated the strangers with, even just a little, respect & courtesy.

Surely we should treat other musicians the way we would hope to be treated ourselves, when we arrived ourselves, at a strange session, in a strange town?

I like to think that, had I even walked in and found two strange Harp players, or two strange Banjo players, or even {dare I say it?}......two strange Bodhran players, I would still have joined them, introduced myself & played music with them.

This sad tale reminds me of that old adage, (perhaps it’s from the Bible?):

“TO BREAK BREAD WITH STRANGERS AND LEAVE THE TABLE WITH FRIEND”

Unfortunately, our Dulcimer players in this story left this particular table with no new friends.

So, my question is this - (& be honest – please) how many folks here would have done likewise & burned off the HD players, & started up elsewhere?

On the other hand, how many people here find this attitude totally unacceptable & believe that this type of ill-mannered behaviour only serves to give ITM a bad name & does nothing to encourage the desired reputation which the rest of us strive each week to give our beloved ITM?

I used to think this type of unfortunate type of behaviour was only to be found in our impersonal big city sessions, & just put it down to ‘them poor ignorant city folk who are - ‘more to be pitied than scolded’’, but this bad attitude, it appears, is creeping into, what were formerly, warm, friendly country town sessions in Ireland, too!

[ We’re DOOMED, we’re ALL DOOMED! – www.davecovcomedy.co.uk/whispersfromwalmington/sounds/dontpanicdontpanic.wav ]

In a review of this very session, carried out by MacSpy a few years ago, he ended the article with:

“I would say that anyone coming across Mr Glasgow & friends would certainly get the proper welcome & encouragement which should be afforded to all who travel with tunes in their heart. Well done lads....”

Sadly, I think MacSpy would need to edit that quote now, in the light of last week’s display, to read “Mr Glasgow '& some of his friends'”

Someone once described our session as - "the best wee session in Ireland" - but sadly, we have a long way to go, & a lot of work to do, before we can even think of printing that particular T Shirt for ourselves!

So is Ireland truly the land of ‘CEAD MILLE FAULTE’? – sadly, I think, not yet!

So, after reading that, I'd be interested to hear your reactions :?

Also, I would be curious to know what you consider to be bad manners at your own 'Old Time Session' :?

Cheers
Dick

[tobias]

I dont get to jam very often. Probably something to do with the fact that Oldtime music isnt very commonly played in Denmark. But at the annual Oldtime Gathering outside Copenhagen (in September) there is jams all the time. Several going on. At these jams I have occasionally left a jam to start another. But never to leave newcommers alone.
One of the reasons that I would leave, would be because the jam got to big. When the 6th fiddle enters, it becomes more of a race to be as loud and big as possible. You loose contact and interaction with the other musicians as individuals, and feel as part of a bigband or an orchestra.
But the main reason that I would leave, would be because the other musicians in a jam dont know much about good and bad jam-manners...in regards to Oldtime music.
I guess they dont read the internet forums ;-)
Since most fiddlers in Denmark (and other european countries I would asume) didnt start out as OT fiddlers, but got into Oldtime through other types of folk-fiddling (scandinavian, irish etc.) or classical violin, they dont use OT fiddletunings, but play out of standard tuning ( I call this "playing Oldtime on the fiddle" as opposed to "playing Oldtime-fiddle"). So they will change keys very often...Now, me, as a traditional clawhammerbanjo player, finds this VERY offensive and frustrating, since I use different tunings for different keys. It is the biggest break of manners in an OT jam. Very often it is bluegrass people who show up at the jam, or the more non-OT fiddlers, who commit this sin. Not because of ill will, but because of ignorance.
I usually leave when this happens...and not in a good mood.
Luckely there are people who appreciate this etiquette...So I will play with them instead.

I really hope to go to a festival in the US (like Clifftop) soon. They seem to have a more firm idea of the do's and don't's of OT jamming.

/Tobias

[Ptarmigan]

I really hope to go to a festival in the US (like Clifftop) soon.

Tobias, when you go, don't forget to take your Video Camera, for all us Old Timers back home! ;D

Cheers
Dick

[john]

tobias said:

I dont get to jam very often. Probably something to do with the fact that Oldtime music isnt very commonly played in Denmark. But at the annual Oldtime Gathering outside Copenhagen (in September) there is jams all the time. Several going on. At these jams I have occasionally left a jam to start another. But never to leave newcommers alone.
One of the reasons that I would leave, would be because the jam got to big. When the 6th fiddle enters, it becomes more of a race to be as loud and big as possible. You loose contact and interaction with the other musicians as individuals, and feel as part of a bigband or an orchestra.
But the main reason that I would leave, would be because the other musicians in a jam dont know much about good and bad jam-manners...in regards to Oldtime music.
I guess they dont read the internet forums ;-)
Since most fiddlers in Denmark (and other european countries I would asume) didnt start out as OT fiddlers, but got into Oldtime through other types of folk-fiddling (scandinavian, irish etc.) or classical violin, they dont use OT fiddletunings, but play out of standard tuning ( I call this "playing Oldtime on the fiddle" as opposed to "playing Oldtime-fiddle"). So they will change keys very often...Now, me, as a traditional clawhammerbanjo player, finds this VERY offensive and frustrating, since I use different tunings for different keys. It is the biggest break of manners in an OT jam. Very often it is bluegrass people who show up at the jam, or the more non-OT fiddlers, who commit this sin. Not because of ill will, but because of ignorance.
I usually leave when this happens...and not in a good mood.
Luckely there are people who appreciate this etiquette...So I will play with them instead.

I really hope to go to a festival in the US (like Clifftop) soon. They seem to have a more firm idea of the do's and don't's of OT jamming.

/Tobias

[john]

Hi Tobias,
You are so right in your point of View!
Being a banjo player it can be a very frustrating experience hammering out beautiful tones acc.
by 101 fiddle players, 20 guitarists, 15 bluegrass banjo players, 9 mandolins and a jew harp
I have been there myself many a time. I just leave when we have tried to demolish a couple of tunes.
John

[john]

admin said:

I really hope to go to a festival in the US (like Clifftop) soon.

Tobias, when you go, don't forget to take your Video Camera, for all us Old Timers back home! ;D

Cheers
Dick

One of my friends went to Clifftop. He did not come back.
He was a real Cliff Hanger.
Slap